plannine
I said I’d be honest, I never said I’d be consistent - Grace Slick
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Post by plannine on Dec 8, 2020 9:46:58 GMT -5
Growing up, I collected Top 40 surveys from all the local stations. At a couple of stations in the 60's, songs that reached the top of their chart run, took a fast fall, many times from the top 5 to completely off the top 40. County station WEXL was pretty vicious in the fall of a song that reached #1 on their top 50, some times dropping out of the top 20, and would rarely be seen on the chart two weeks after hitting the top. Few songs on the survey were #1 for more then a week, but after a long slow climb up the chart or a song that jumped to the top, the end was quick.
In Billboard Magazine, only a handful of songs have ever dropped from the top spot on the Hot 100, out of the top 11, and almost half of them that did, did so in 2020 The other half of the big falls took place in 1974. Is their something similar between the years?
1-Off the Chart - Mariah Carey's "All I Want for Christmas Is You" 1/11/2020 1–34 – 6ix9ine and Nicki Minaj – "Trollz" 7/4/2020 1–28 – BTS – "Life Goes On" 12/12/2020 1–25 – Travis Scott featuring Young Thug and M.I.A. – "Franchise" 10/17/2020 1–17 – The Weeknd – "Heartless" 2019 1–15 – Billy Preston – "Nothing from Nothing" 1974 1–15 – Dionne Warwicke and The Spinners – "Then Came You" 1974 1–13 – Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber – "Stuck with U" 5/30/2020 1–12 – Simon & Garfunkel – "The Sound of Silence" 1966 1–12 – Barry White – "Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe" 1974 1–12 – Andy Kim – "Rock Me Gently" 1974 1–12 – Stevie Wonder – "You Haven't Done Nothin'" 1974 1–12 – Bachman–Turner Overdrive – "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet" 1974 1–12 – John Lennon and Plastic Ono Band – "Whatever Gets You thru the Night" 1974 1–12 – The Scotts, Travis Scott and Kid Cudi – "The Scotts" 5/16/2020
Do you think the fast fall going to be more common in 2021?
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Post by Courage on Dec 8, 2020 14:52:14 GMT -5
And with the exception of Simon & Garfunkel, the other half happened in 1974 lol
With so much emphasis on streaming and tiktok right now, I could see the trend continuing.
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Post by JessieLou on Dec 8, 2020 19:31:14 GMT -5
Yeah, except for one thing. These are bangers: 1–15 – Billy Preston – "Nothing from Nothing" 1974 1–15 – Dionne Warwicke and The Spinners – "Then Came You" 1974 1–12 – Stevie Wonder – "You Haven't Done Nothin'" 1974 1–12 – John Lennon and Plastic Ono Band – "Whatever Gets You thru the Night" 1974 And these are not : 1–34 – 6ix9ine and Nicki Minaj – "Trollz" 7/4/2020 1–28 – BTS – "Life Goes On" 12/12/2020 1–25 – Travis Scott featuring Young Thug and M.I.A. – "Franchise" 10/17/2020 1–13 – Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber – "Stuck with U" 5/30/2020
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Post by billcs on Dec 9, 2020 15:06:21 GMT -5
I agree with John that this will continue. The changes to how the Hot 100 is compiled have affected all facets of the chart. Back in 1974, the chart was based on sales and radio play, and there was likely manual manipulation behind the scenes which is unable to occur in these more technological days, at least not in the same ways. It's Billboard's chart and they ultimately have final say as to how it looks at the end of the day, numbers or not.
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Post by macprohawaii on Dec 28, 2020 14:08:10 GMT -5
For Christmas songs yes... I would not be surprised to see Mariah Carey pull it off again in 2021 with the same song... "All I Want For Christmas is You".... She did that early this year as noted above. Won't happen this Christmas season just passed since "All I Want For Christmas is You" was knocked out of #1 and fell to #2 by Taylor Swift's "Willow".
As for regular song appearances, perhaps it will happen more often since several songs debut at #1 and then fall many notches below, out of the top 10 and maybe the top 40.
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Post by Courage on Jan 3, 2021 3:14:34 GMT -5
We can add another to the list. Biggest drop from #1 without falling off.
Taylor Swift's Willow fell 1-38 last week.
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Dan40
That nut from California
Radio Panic #1: IDLES - Dancer
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Post by Dan40 on Aug 7, 2022 14:50:51 GMT -5
My theory about 1974 is that Billboard tweaked the formulas for a short time and possibly prioritized sales more than radio airplay. I would think sales reports are more volatile than airplay even with humans reporting on it.
Those examples tell me that the supplies of those 45 singles just ran out. Of course supply of airplay is endless.
Then Billboard re-tweaked the formula, likely because record companies complained that a number one song shouldn't fall from #1 that far.
I'll take a peek at some 1974 issues top see if it gets mentioned.
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Dan40
That nut from California
Radio Panic #1: IDLES - Dancer
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Post by Dan40 on Aug 7, 2022 15:01:18 GMT -5
Just thought of a reason for possible "sales dips": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisisI think we've learned in the last couple of years when we have supply chain problems. Well, vinyl is plastic and comes from oil, which was in short supply in 1973-1974. So it makes sense those seven singles had very limited production runs, and just sold out.
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Post by FreakyFlyBry on Aug 7, 2022 16:39:32 GMT -5
Just thought of a reason for possible "sales dips": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisisI think we've learned in the last couple of years when we have supply chain problems. Well, vinyl is plastic and comes from oil, which was in short supply in 1973-1974. So it makes sense those seven singles had very limited production runs, and just sold out. That just reminded me that this song charted in 1974:
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Dan40
That nut from California
Radio Panic #1: IDLES - Dancer
Posts: 353
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Post by Dan40 on Aug 8, 2022 20:31:06 GMT -5
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Post by billcs on Aug 9, 2022 17:29:26 GMT -5
I've read in numerous sources that the big drops in 1974 were a combination of Billboard's own manipulation of the Hot 100 plus radio station playlists dropping songs frequently from the top end of their charts. When record companies and other industry notables caught wind, things changed and the charts became regularized.
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Dan40
That nut from California
Radio Panic #1: IDLES - Dancer
Posts: 353
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Post by Dan40 on Aug 11, 2022 20:58:59 GMT -5
I've read in numerous sources that the big drops in 1974 were a combination of Billboard's own manipulation of the Hot 100 plus radio station playlists dropping songs frequently from the top end of their charts. When record companies and other industry notables caught wind, things changed and the charts became regularized. I'm interested in doing a deep dive. World Radio History has archived Billboard, Radio & Records and Record World. Paging through a 1974 issue of Billboard, their methodology seemed very opaque compared to what I remember in the late 80s and early 90s. Radio & Records's pop chart was purely airplay and Record World's sales. I think comparing each week may give us a clearer, but still murky picture about chart manipulation. Also, that article mentioned that John Lennon dropped a few weeks before landing at #40, and then stayed at #40 for a second week giving the Beatles a solo quadfecta. That right there is, ah, suspicious.
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Post by billcs on Aug 11, 2022 22:20:38 GMT -5
I've read in numerous sources that the big drops in 1974 were a combination of Billboard's own manipulation of the Hot 100 plus radio station playlists dropping songs frequently from the top end of their charts. When record companies and other industry notables caught wind, things changed and the charts became regularized. Also, that article mentioned that John Lennon dropped a few weeks before landing at #40, and then stayed at #40 for a second week giving the Beatles a solo quadfecta. That right there is, ah, suspicious. Sorry, when was this? John Lennon had his first Billboard Top 40 hit in 1969, so not really sure what you're referring to.
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Post by FreakyFlyBry on Aug 11, 2022 23:47:37 GMT -5
Also, that article mentioned that John Lennon dropped a few weeks before landing at #40, and then stayed at #40 for a second week giving the Beatles a solo quadfecta. That right there is, ah, suspicious. Sorry, when was this? John Lennon had his first Billboard Top 40 hit in 1969, so not really sure what you're referring to. There was a week in 1974 where John Lennon held on to #40 for a second week with "Whatever Gets You Thru The Night" on its way down the chart - just in time for George Harrison to enter the top 40, while Paul and Ringo both had songs in the top 40 already. top40weekly.com/1974/12/14/us-top-40-singles-week-ending-14th-december-1974/I'm sure the AT40 boards have had some kind of discussion about this.
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Post by billcs on Aug 13, 2022 23:13:47 GMT -5
Here's some additional extremely interesting information about the Billboard Hot 100 as written in a 1976 book that I have called Rock File 4.
In 1974/75:
During one six-week stretch, every #1 single became #12 the next week, a statistical improbability. During the first four months of 1975, only two records in the #1 position retained that slot the next week, both Elton John singles; the #2 singles otherwise automatically ascended to #1.
How the Hot 100 was compiled, according to its director of charts at the time:
...as many as 185 titles will be checked...whereas the published chart only lists 100 titles plus 10 bubbling under titles. The dealer one-stops are asked to rate the products as far as movement as: Very Good, Good or Fair. We assign points - 20, 10, 5. We also ask them for their Top 15 product and assign 15 points to their first choice, down to 1 for the 15th choice. We also use radio from the bottom of the chart to the top... products can only come on to the chart by radio airplay itself or by heavy disco play or by a combination of radio, disco play, and sales. We canvass over 124 radio stations and these are stations that have been recommended to us by the top record promotion men of all labels... The stations used for the Hot 100 are rated 1, 2, 4 and 6 depending on their strength in their marketplace. The weight of a single based on its cumulative radio play is totalled and included in the sum total which now includes dealer and one-stops and is printed on a computer sheet for [my] review. The final chart is made from this computer printout. The printout has the week's sales of each product, the week's top 15 sales points, the total radio points for the week, and a comparison of the previous week's points. "I do not position the chart based exactly on the computer printout because there are many other factors involved such as whether the artist is on tour, where there are TV spots currently being played, whether there are radio spots on the product, and whether the single is tied into an LP [or vice versa]. The computer does not place product on the Hot 100. All positioning is done [by me] on the basis of information at hand."
About an unusual leap on the chart in 1975 made by a future #1 song:
'Nobody in town believes it! The fix has to be in somewhere. No one is getting requests for it, and we're not getting sales report from the stores. Besides, no record jumps like that.' - Music Director of a Boston radio station. The leap from 23-5 achieved by Tony Orlando & Dawn's "He Don't Love You (Like I Love You)" did indeed look suspicious, for no record had taken that big of a jump since Wings' "Live and Let Die" shot from 21-3 in summer of 1973... It was a big jump, [which] an Elektra Records official conceded... it was decided that if any single was going to be a hit this month [April 1975], it would be [it]. The national promotion director made sure of that: he pushed that one personally.
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