Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 23:54:22 GMT -5
First things first...if anyone feels that this doesn't deserve its own thread, feel free to merge it somewhere else. I'm creating this thread to start a discussion I feel we should have. This is NOT me blindly hating on Macklemore (I'll put that aside in this thread ), and it's certainly not me attacking the message of the song. I understand that beyond its status as an anthem for gay rights, it is a personal track for Macklemore about his life and his uncle. My issue lies with people hailing this man as a progressive, forward-thinking hero for making this song, when clearly the American mainstream was ready for it. Wouldn't a progressive, forward-thinking hero be ahead of the curve? We've been seeing sitcoms, songs and movies that promote gay rights for years. But who openly supports transgender issues? Just about nobody. These people may have it worse than any minority in American society and don't exactly have the media on their side. The media can get away with asking these people uncomfortable questions (see Katie Couric's recent show where she asked two trans-women about their private parts. Could you imagine her asking a similar question to Ellen DeGeneres?). Clearly America isn't quite ready for a pro-trans anthem, so don't expect a guy like Macklemore to record one any time soon. He'll wait until it's "safe" to use that community to put some more money in his pockets. The man is thought of as a sort of martyr in the notoriously homophobic hip hop industry. That doesn't mean much when he's a white alternative hip hop artist marketed to a largely white audience. Does it change things to an extent? Yes. But the fact that a much more respected white rapper (within the hip hop community), Eminem, released an album laced with homophobia a few months ago is proof that it didn't do as much as you'd probably like to think.
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Post by Lisa-Gail > Madonna on Feb 8, 2014 5:31:10 GMT -5
I don't really agree. I mean, I'm not from America so I can't speak for whether I think that country was ready for this song, but whether they were or not, it is nice to see it out there. While, sure, it would be nice to see a transgender support song out there, it's hardly Macklemore at fault for not writing it. Perhaps he doesn't have the same personal experience he used for Same Love, and so, writing a song in support of that issue would most certainly be a cash grab, whereas I wouldn't say Same Love was.
No song is ever going to change the world THAT much. You're always going to have ignorant idiots like Eminem spouting their crap. The best you can hope to do is help a few people. The race issue has been going on for a long time, and there are plenty of people who have done a lot to change things there, but there are still plenty of ignorant racists out there who just don't get it. It doesn't mean that all the good work others have done is lessened. Even if Macklemore hasn't done much in the way of changing anything, the fact that this song is out there and has been accepted might open the door for others with things to say on the subject to feel safer in doing so. And that can only be good.
I dunno, I'm bad at explaining myself and talking about serious stuff. But I feel that just because he hasn't openly supported a more taboo issue it doesn't make what he's saying with Same Love mean any less.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 6:22:31 GMT -5
OMG! How is it possible for you to completely miss the whole goddamn picture, @bestintheworld? I stared in openmouthed dismay as I read your attack that took Macklemore's accomplishment and relegated it to some sort of money-grab.
How wonderful that you must live in such an accepting and progressive part of the country that you can afford not to be aware of what it's like for those of us who live in the armpit or anus of the USA. This is like whites who lived in northern states and had no idea what it was like for blacks in the southern states. Those of you who live in accepting states, especially those with state ENDA laws and marriage equality, are NOT qualified to make blanket statements like "Mainstream media was ready for it," when you wouldn't believe the crap that feeds the diets of OUR mainstream media. Do you really know about the situation in less-accepting states, unless you have visited and mired in the sewage that we live in on the daily? This is the f*cking home of FOX News and the goddamn Tea Party. This is the place where idiots still talk about the illegal Muslim President with the fake birth certificate.
To have a song like "Same Love" make it on the airwaves of pathetic shithole dumps like my city is unbelievable... yet, at its high point, "Same Love" was getting nearly 90 spins a week on my local CHR. To hear that on the radio in a state where 78% voted to ban marriage equality is amazing, and, to me, that makes Macklemore a trailblazer for me where I live. He didn't have to record that song; he felt compelled to record it because he's an advocate who wanted to f*cking DO something to show his support of his GLBT brothers and sisters. I live in a state that is ranked #1 in the nation for number of women murdered by their own husbands. I live in a state that didn't rescind its interracial marriage ban until the early 90s... and even then, the vote was only around 60% approval to remove the ban... and this was over 20 years after the Supreme Court ruled interracial marriage bans illegal. Gay rights are another 100 years down the road here, since women's rights and civil rights of people of color are still in their infancy by comparison. And let me point out something that you didn't consider in your hypothesis either: Macklemore's chorus is sung by a lesbian, not a gay man. Mainstream media is a lot more accepting of women kissing women than it is of men kissing men, and, as an extension, is more "all right" with the thought of women being a couple than of men being a couple. Only recently did I begin to see web sites showing men kissing (rather than women kissing) as the photo to stories of marriage equality. You want progressive? Give me a song where a man can sing about kissing another man... and get that to #11 on the Hot 100. As for Trans rights, I'd guess that's 200 years down the road in the cesspool where I live.
In summary: For me, yes, Macklemore IS a progressive, forward-thinking hero... and for you to think otherwise only underscores how GODDAMN LUCKY you are to live where you live, because you can't see what his accomplishment means to those of us who live elsewhere. The Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave still has a f*cking long way to go to have the equality that our Constitution supposedly guarantees to all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 6:23:06 GMT -5
I don't really agree. I mean, I'm not from America so I can't speak for whether I think that country was ready for this song, but whether they were or not, it is nice to see it out there. While, sure, it would be nice to see a transgender support song out there, it's hardly Macklemore at fault for not writing it. Perhaps he doesn't have the same personal experience he used for Same Love, and so, writing a song in support of that issue would most certainly be a cash grab, whereas I wouldn't say Same Love was. No song is ever going to change the world THAT much. You're always going to have ignorant idiots like Eminem spouting their crap. The best you can hope to do is help a few people. The race issue has been going on for a long time, and there are plenty of people who have done a lot to change things there, but there are still plenty of ignorant racists out there who just don't get it. It doesn't mean that all the good work others have done is lessened. Even if Macklemore hasn't done much in the way of changing anything, the fact that this song is out there and has been accepted might open the door for others with things to say on the subject to feel safer in doing so. And that can only be good. I dunno, I'm bad at explaining myself and talking about serious stuff. But I feel that just because he hasn't openly supported a more taboo issue it doesn't make what he's saying with Same Love mean any less. THANK YOU!!! I could kiss you.
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Post by Jason on Feb 8, 2014 14:28:15 GMT -5
I'm going to have to say that I don't agree with you either, KP. I'm not going to underscore the sociological ramifications of "Same Love," because I think Bluezombie and David both did that with their posts. But I want to speak to your points about "Eminem vs. Macklemore" and the fact that Macklemore is a Hip-Hop artists marketed toward white people. He and Ryan Lewis recorded The Heist independently without a record label promotional machine behind them. They funded the album mostly themselves. And many of the songs we heard in late 2012 and 2013 as singles were actually released in 2011 and mid-2012. I'm sure when he was recording the album, he wasn't thinking, "I'm going to make a Rap album for white people to listen to!" or "Hmmm... Who am I going to market this to once I release it?" He just recorded an album of fun songs, socially conscious songs, and songs that meant something to him, which is why I don't think "Same Love" was recorded because it was a "safe" time to do so. It was actually recorded in support of Washington State's attempt to achieve marriage equality on the electoral ballot in 2012. Given that it was an independent project, he probably thought The Heist would only sell a few thousand copies, if that. In fact, "Can't Hold Us" (in August 2011) and "Same Love" (in July 2012) were released as the second and third singles from the album, respectively, to a resounding thud in terms of mainstream exposure. It wasn't until "Thrift Shop" was released in late 2012 that the public at large started to catch on. "Thrift Shop" and the re-released "Can't Hold Us" actually generated a decent amount of airplay and acceptance from Urban radio stations ("decent" is a relative term, considering that Eminem, who is supposedly more respected by the Hip-Hop community has traditionally gotten very little airplay on Urban radio either).
It wasn't until "Same Love" was re-released that Urban radio started to retreat from Macklemore. It's not easy to play a song that calls out your community for being narrowminded, after all. I'm not comfortable with generalizing the Hip-Hop community as a whole as being bigoted toward homosexuality. I like think it's an increasingly smaller "noisy minority" of the community. With respected leaders like Jay-Z, T.I., Kendrick Lamar, and Kanye West (to name a few) showing acceptance, I think the Hip-Hop community is slowly moving toward acceptance. But in a world where ratings mean everything (especially in the world of radio, where they're slowly losing the battle to the multitude of online music services that continue to crop up), Urban radio had to play it safe and not play "Same Love," rather than risk complaints, an onslaught of "cyber warriors" tweeting displeasure, and - horror of all horrors - loss of listeners. Rap used to be about partying, having a good time, "flirting with the honeys," and talking about what was important to you. It's a shame that, because you have to "keep it real" to be considered authentic in the Hip-Hop community these days - and "keeping it real" is deemed to be songs about street life, being a thug, having sex with multiple partners, or getting "turnt up" - artists like Macklemore all of the sudden are considered corny or not real. Those topics are valid topics for Rap to be about, because they're a reality for a whole lot of people. But to be good, not all Rap music has to be about hustling or street life. Like Macklemore said on "Same Love," Hip-Hop and Rap sprung from oppression and people who felt like they were "on the bottom." What's more "Hip-Hop" than recording an independent album, funding it yourself, and beating the odds to have it become a worldwide sensation? Being a white man who likes Hip-Hop and especially R&B, I consider myself especially sensitive (in fact, probably TOO sensitive) to racial issues as they relate to music. But in this case, I think it's very short-sighted for so many in the Hip-Hop community to be upset over Macklemore's success because he's a white man. The community should take the music for what it is and stop trying to see it as some sort of devious attempt at making money by using Hip-Hop.
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Julian
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Post by Julian on Feb 8, 2014 15:24:50 GMT -5
I actually agree with KP. The song is essentially a white privileged heterosexual man cashing in on the latest social movement which in this case happens to be equal rights between same sex couples. The song itself doesn't feel authentic and I think it's honestly one of the worst songs of 2013 period, this is coming from a gay man's perspective. But yeah if I want a cup of empowerment, I'll take "Born This Way', "Raise Your Glass" and even "Firework' over this any day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 16:18:45 GMT -5
First of all, I'd like to say thanks for the replies I've gotten so far. While most disagree with me, that's fine. By all means that is what I expected. To Julian, thanks for the positive feedback and being willing to agree with the unpopular opinion. OMG! How is it possible for you to completely miss the whole goddamn picture, @bestintheworld? I stared in openmouthed dismay as I read your attack that took Macklemore's accomplishment and relegated it to some sort of money-grab. I don't think I missed the point. I tried to make it clear that I understood and supported the message of the song, and am aware of the personal connection it has with Macklemore. How wonderful that you must live in such an accepting and progressive part of the country that you can afford not to be aware of what it's like for those of us who live in the armpit or anus of the USA. This is like whites who lived in northern states and had no idea what it was like for blacks in the southern states. Those of you who live in accepting states, especially those with state ENDA laws and marriage equality, are NOT qualified to make blanket statements like "Mainstream media was ready for it," when you wouldn't believe the crap that feeds the diets of OUR mainstream media. Do you really know about the situation in less-accepting states, unless you have visited and mired in the sewage that we live in on the daily? This is the F*cking home of FOX News and the goddamn Tea Party. This is the place where idiots still talk about the illegal Muslim President with the fake birth certificate. Yes, I'm lucky to live in a progressive area. I realize that something I don't even think twice about (being a white male and dating non-white women) is still seen as taboo throughout much of our country. I can only imagine how lucky gays feel to live in this area. This armpit/anus you speak of is about 83% of America, if you go by the counties that were "red" in the 2012 presidential election. The thing is, this is a largely rural nation and most of those counties are irrelevant to the American mainstream. Even in a very liberal state like Maryland, most counties are very conservative. When we legalized gay marriage, it was my county with a couple other major ones. All of the rural counties were staunchly against it. The American mainstream is represented by the major markets, where people live and where elections are decided. While I'm sure it's revolutionary hearing "Same Love" on the radio in Nutbush, Kentucky; the truth is that in most major markets it wasn't a big deal. Do I think that more attention should be given to the struggles of gays in these rural areas? Yes. But to say those areas are the mainstream would not be correct. To have a song like "Same Love" make it on the airwaves of pathetic shithole dumps like my city is unbelievable... yet, at its high point, "Same Love" was getting nearly 90 spins a week on my local CHR. To hear that on the radio in a state where 78% voted to ban marriage equality is amazing, and, to me, that makes Macklemore a trailblazer for me where I live. He didn't have to record that song; he felt compelled to record it because he's an advocate who wanted to F*cking DO something to show his support of his GLBT brothers and sisters. I live in a state that is ranked #1 in the nation for number of women murdered by their own husbands. I live in a state that didn't rescind its interracial marriage ban until the early 90s... and even then, the vote was only around 60% approval to remove the ban... and this was over 20 years after the Supreme Court ruled interracial marriage bans illegal. Gay rights are another 100 years down the road here, since women's rights and civil rights of people of color are still in their infancy by comparison. And let me point out something that you didn't consider in your hypothesis either: Macklemore's chorus is sung by a lesbian, not a gay man. Mainstream media is a lot more accepting of women kissing women than it is of men kissing men, and, as an extension, is more "all right" with the thought of women being a couple than of men being a couple. Only recently did I begin to see web sites showing men kissing (rather than women kissing) as the photo to stories of marriage equality. You want progressive? Give me a song where a man can sing about kissing another man... and get that to #11 on the Hot 100. As for Trans rights, I'd guess that's 200 years down the road in the cesspool where I live. I was actually thinking about mentioning the whole lesbian woman vs. gay man thing in my first post, but didn't want to overload people with questions. I had a friend suggest that if Adam Lambert had sung the chorus, it would have been "too much" for the general public to handle and would not have done so well. I don't know if I agree with that, but I find it an interesting point regardless. So if you think trans rights are 200 years down the road, should they have to wait for other groups? No one should be pushed to the back of the line. Just because the media can only handle helping one group of people at a time doesn't mean we have to follow their lead. I don't know what state you live in (I'm guessing Alabama?) but I highly doubt you think that gay rights in your state should be put on hold for the rights of women/blacks to catch up to the norm. Likewise, we shouldn't wait for gay marriage to be legalized in all 50 states before we start taking trans people more seriously. No one group of people is better or more important than another. In summary: For me, yes, Macklemore IS a progressive, forward-thinking hero... and for you to think otherwise only underscores how GODDAMN LUCKY you are to live where you live, because you can't see what his accomplishment means to those of us who live elsewhere. The Land of the Free, the Home of the Brave still has a F*cking long way to go to have the equality that our Constitution supposedly guarantees to all. Thanks for the well-written reply. I never said I didn't see what the song accomplished; I just wanted to voice my opinions on some issues I had with it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 16:44:49 GMT -5
I'm going to have to say that I don't agree with you either, KP. I'm not going to underscore the sociological ramifications of "Same Love," because I think Bluezombie and David both did that with their posts. But I want to speak to your points about "Eminem vs. Macklemore" and the fact that Macklemore is a Hip-Hop artists marketed toward white people. He and Ryan Lewis recorded The Heist independently without a record label promotional machine behind them. They funded the album mostly themselves. And many of the songs we heard in late 2012 and 2013 as singles were actually released in 2011 and mid-2012. I'm sure when he was recording the album, he wasn't thinking, "I'm going to make a Rap album for white people to listen to!" or "Hmmm... Who am I going to market this to once I release it?" He just recorded an album of fun songs, socially conscious songs, and songs that meant something to him, which is why I don't think "Same Love" was recorded because it was a "safe" time to do so. It was actually recorded in support of Washington State's attempt to achieve marriage equality on the electoral ballot in 2012. Given that it was an independent project, he probably thought The Heist would only sell a few thousand copies, if that. In fact, "Can't Hold Us" (in August 2011) and "Same Love" (in July 2012) were released as the second and third singles from the album, respectively, to a resounding thud in terms of mainstream exposure. It wasn't until "Thrift Shop" was released in late 2012 that the public at large started to catch on. "Thrift Shop" and the re-released "Can't Hold Us" actually generated a decent amount of airplay and acceptance from Urban radio stations ("decent" is a relative term, considering that Eminem, who is supposedly more respected by the Hip-Hop community has traditionally gotten very little airplay on Urban radio either). Macklemore recording his stuff as an independent artist is a good point. That being said, common sense would say that he knew if he did make it big it would be with a largely white audience. Would two preppy white guys really be marketed in the same way as Lil Wayne or Yoing Jeezy? Do you think Eminem performing poorly on Urban radio is an indication that the black hip hop fan base doesn't take him as seriously as people say? It wasn't until "Same Love" was re-released that Urban radio started to retreat from Macklemore. It's not easy to play a song that calls out your community for being narrowminded, after all. I'm not comfortable with generalizing the Hip-Hop community as a whole as being bigoted toward homosexuality. I like think it's an increasingly smaller "noisy minority" of the community. With respected leaders like Jay-Z, T.I., Kendrick Lamar, and Kanye West (to name a few) showing acceptance, I think the Hip-Hop community is slowly moving toward acceptance. But in a world where ratings mean everything (especially in the world of radio, where they're slowly losing the battle to the multitude of online music services that continue to crop up), Urban radio had to play it safe and not play "Same Love," rather than risk complaints, an onslaught of "cyber warriors" tweeting displeasure, and - horror of all horrors - loss of listeners. Rap used to be about partying, having a good time, "flirting with the honeys," and talking about what was important to you. It's a shame that, because you have to "keep it real" to be considered authentic in the Hip-Hop community these days - and "keeping it real" is deemed to be songs about street life, being a thug, having sex with multiple partners, or getting "turnt up" - artists like Macklemore all of the sudden are considered corny or not real. Those topics are valid topics for Rap to be about, because they're a reality for a whole lot of people. But to be good, not all Rap music has to be about hustling or street life. Like Macklemore said on "Same Love," Hip-Hop and Rap sprung from oppression and people who felt like they were "on the bottom." What's more "Hip-Hop" than recording an independent album, funding it yourself, and beating the odds to have it become a worldwide sensation? Being a white man who likes Hip-Hop and especially R&B, I consider myself especially sensitive (in fact, probably TOO sensitive) to racial issues as they relate to music. But in this case, I think it's very short-sighted for so many in the Hip-Hop community to be upset over Macklemore's success because he's a white man. The community should take the music for what it is and stop trying to see it as some sort of devious attempt at making money by using Hip-Hop. Rap made the transition from light-hearted to heavy a good quarter-century ago, didn't it? I've read that in the late 80s and early 90s, hip hop and "street life" merged. In the late 90s and early 00s, this hybrid culture culture made its way into professional sports (mainly football and basketball). Many long for the days when the three were separate. I would think most hip hop listeners associate "at the bottom" with living on the streets, getting beat up, doing illegal things to get by, etc. Macklemore's story would appeal more to rock or pop fans, if you ask me. Eminem is the one white rapper who people know went through the tribulations of a typical hip hop artist, so as a result he isn't seen as a gimmicky white kid.
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Post by FreakyFlyBry on Feb 8, 2014 17:09:40 GMT -5
I think it was really the right song at the right time. The movement for equal rights for gay people has definitely been gaining traction over the years, and Macklemore just happened to have the right song for it at the right time. The fact that a song that helped symbolize such a movement was able to be such a huge hit is testament to its power. Seems like it had been a while since the last protest/social commentary song prior to this was a big hit.
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Post by Jason on Feb 8, 2014 17:22:25 GMT -5
Macklemore recording his stuff as an independent artist is a good point. That being said, common sense would say that he knew if he did make it big it would be with a largely white audience. Would two preppy white guys really be marketed in the same way as Lil Wayne or Yoing Jeezy? No. You're right. They certainly wouldn't. But I do think marketing is all about cultivating an image - real or not - and presenting it to would-be listeners and fans to give them a reason to latch on to you. I don't think it's a huge leap to say that that artists like Young Jeezy or Lil' Wayne aren't necessarily who we're made to believe they are. I know Lil' Wayne's story and I know he had a very hard life when he was younger and that has informed the type of music he makes. I'm certainly not saying that every Hip-Hop artist is fake or inauthentic. But not every artist who makes a song about hustling is a hustler. And not every artist that makes a song about sleeping around is a player either. But artists like Ja Rule and Rick Ross have been "outed" for being inauthentic (Ja was discovered to have grown up in a *gasp, clutch your pearls, everyone* middle-class home and Rick Ross was famously discovered to be a former corrections officer at a prison). Conversely, 50 Cent, who, like Lil' Wayne, had a hard life, growing up seemed to use that past before "In Da Club" became a worldwide phenomenon. Whenever I saw or heard him interviewed, he appeared to use a vicious attack upon him as a promotional tool, instead of talking about the songs. "50, what can we expect from your debut album?" "Uh, yeah... Did you know I was shot 9 times?" "Wow! That's crazy! But, 50, tell us a little bit about the songs on the album." "Uh yeah. They're great. But did I mention that I was shot 9 times and I survived?" Seriously. It sucks that you were attacked. but tell me about the music. I'm not saying anything's right or wrong. It's just interesting that some people are "punished" for not having a crappy past. Do you think Eminem performing poorly on Urban radio is an indication that the black hip hop fan base doesn't take him as seriously as people say? No. Not at all. Radio doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. I've said on more than one occasion that all radio is is a bunch of people (music directors and program directors) playing what they like or what record labels want the population to like. However there's no denying that, as respected as he is by the Hip-Hop community, he doesn't get the kind of love from Urban radio that his peers do. Those who still use radio as their primary way to discover music (and there are more of that type of person than you would think) aren't getting exposure to Eminem if they listen to their local Urban station instead of the Pop or Rhythmic Pop station. In the end, what really matters is what each individual likes. What some DJ, program director, record label exec, or music critic likes - or wants YOU to like - doesn't really mean anything. Rap made the transition from light-hearted to heavy a good quarter-century ago, didn't it? I've read that in the late 80s and early 90s, hip hop and "street life" merged. In the late 90s and early 00s, this hybrid culture culture made its way into professional sports (mainly football and basketball). Many long for the days when the three were separate. I would think most hip hop listeners associate "at the bottom" with living on the streets, getting beat up, doing illegal things to get by, etc. Macklemore's story would appeal more to rock or pop fans, if you ask me. Eminem is the one white rapper who people know went through the tribulations of a typical hip hop artist, so as a result he isn't seen as a gimmicky white kid. Yes, it did make that transition many years ago. But just because that part of the reality of life on the streets became infused in Hip-Hop and Rap doesn't mean that that's the only type of music rappers should be allowed to make in order to have a successful career. No one's life is all about hustling, getting in fights, or poppin' bottles and f*ckin' models. There should be room for every type of song on the spectrum in Hip-Hop just like there is in other genres of music. Otherwise, Ja Rule and Rick Ross wouldn't have had to hide their pasts...and who knows how many others wouldn't have to be currently hiding their past. How Rick Ross came out of his bombshell virtually unscathed while Ja Rule was almost immediately exiled to irrelevancy still eludes me. But that's another discussion for another time. Maybe Macklemore's music and his backstory is more suited to Rock or Pop fans. But if he wants to record Rap music, I don't think he deserves to be vilified by Hip-Hop fans for making a good Hip-Hop album that wasn't about the things Hip-Hop albums are "typically" about. At any rate, it doesn't seem like we're going to see completely eye-to-eye on this topic. And that's okay. It's good to have this type of discussion (it happens so infrequently on M4BCC, it seems) where people can respectfully disagree without immediately resorting to insults and name-calling. Thanks for starting the thread, KP.
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Post by JessieLou on Feb 8, 2014 18:56:51 GMT -5
I'm going to have to say that I don't agree with you either, KP. I'm not going to underscore the sociological ramifications of "Same Love," because I think Bluezombie and David both did that with their posts. But I want to speak to your points about "Eminem vs. Macklemore" and the fact that Macklemore is a Hip-Hop artists marketed toward white people. He and Ryan Lewis recorded The Heist independently without a record label promotional machine behind them. They funded the album mostly themselves. And many of the songs we heard in late 2012 and 2013 as singles were actually released in 2011 and mid-2012. I'm sure when he was recording the album, he wasn't thinking, "I'm going to make a Rap album for white people to listen to!" or "Hmmm... Who am I going to market this to once I release it?" He just recorded an album of fun songs, socially conscious songs, and songs that meant something to him, which is why I don't think "Same Love" was recorded because it was a "safe" time to do so. It was actually recorded in support of Washington State's attempt to achieve marriage equality on the electoral ballot in 2012. Given that it was an independent project, he probably thought The Heist would only sell a few thousand copies, if that. In fact, "Can't Hold Us" (in August 2011) and "Same Love" (in July 2012) were released as the second and third singles from the album, respectively, to a resounding thud in terms of mainstream exposure. It wasn't until "Thrift Shop" was released in late 2012 that the public at large started to catch on. "Thrift Shop" and the re-released "Can't Hold Us" actually generated a decent amount of airplay and acceptance from Urban radio stations ("decent" is a relative term, considering that Eminem, who is supposedly more respected by the Hip-Hop community has traditionally gotten very little airplay on Urban radio either). It wasn't until "Same Love" was re-released that Urban radio started to retreat from Macklemore. It's not easy to play a song that calls out your community for being narrowminded, after all. I'm not comfortable with generalizing the Hip-Hop community as a whole as being bigoted toward homosexuality. I like think it's an increasingly smaller "noisy minority" of the community. With respected leaders like Jay-Z, T.I., Kendrick Lamar, and Kanye West (to name a few) showing acceptance, I think the Hip-Hop community is slowly moving toward acceptance. But in a world where ratings mean everything (especially in the world of radio, where they're slowly losing the battle to the multitude of online music services that continue to crop up), Urban radio had to play it safe and not play "Same Love," rather than risk complaints, an onslaught of "cyber warriors" tweeting displeasure, and - horror of all horrors - loss of listeners. Rap used to be about partying, having a good time, "flirting with the honeys," and talking about what was important to you. It's a shame that, because you have to "keep it real" to be considered authentic in the Hip-Hop community these days - and "keeping it real" is deemed to be songs about street life, being a thug, having sex with multiple partners, or getting "turnt up" - artists like Macklemore all of the sudden are considered corny or not real. Those topics are valid topics for Rap to be about, because they're a reality for a whole lot of people. But to be good, not all Rap music has to be about hustling or street life. Like Macklemore said on "Same Love," Hip-Hop and Rap sprung from oppression and people who felt like they were "on the bottom." What's more "Hip-Hop" than recording an independent album, funding it yourself, and beating the odds to have it become a worldwide sensation? Being a white man who likes Hip-Hop and especially R&B, I consider myself especially sensitive (in fact, probably TOO sensitive) to racial issues as they relate to music. But in this case, I think it's very short-sighted for so many in the Hip-Hop community to be upset over Macklemore's success because he's a white man. The community should take the music for what it is and stop trying to see it as some sort of devious attempt at making money by using Hip-Hop. This pretty much sums up how I feel. Macklemore & Ryan Lewis are independent, so I doubt when they were recording "Same Love", they thought to themselves, "This is going to make us SOOOO much money!" Actually, after "Thrift Shop" became such a huge hit, I assumed that a label was eventually going to sign them. Two friends of mine recently went to see Macklemore & Ryan Lewis in concert and apparently they paid for all the theatrics themselves - they're STILL independent! That really surprised me, when is the last time an artist who wasn't on a label achieved Grammys and fame? I know the last one to go to #1 was Lisa Loeb, but still, daaaamn. I'm SO sorry that you have to deal with that @cdennisfan Get out of there ASAP brotha! Growing up in a conservative home, I was told when I was younger than being gay wasn't okay but I never really understood why - what was wrong with two people of the same gender being in love with each other? In fact, I recall one incident around 2005-2006 where I said that I found nothing wrong with gay marriage and my Mom said to me that it was wrong like it was a fact and I got really pissed off. Fortunately, neither of my parents are like that now and are more open minded. However, although I do think society has gotten more open minded than, say, 10 years ago, I still think there is a ways to go. What I personally find sickening is that two gay people who sincerely love each other are not allowed to be legally married, and yet fame whores like Kim Kardashian can get married for 72 days for attention with no LOVE in it at all. In response to your comments about transsexualism in the media @bestintheworld, there was a character on Degrassi named Adam who was a female-to-male transgender. At any rate, it doesn't seem like we're going to see completely eye-to-eye on this topic. And that's okay. It's good to have this type of discussion (it happens so infrequently on M4BCC, it seems) where people can respectfully disagree without immediately resorting to insults and name-calling. Thanks for starting the thread, KP. AGREED! I wish we had more discussions like this.
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Post by Cody on Feb 9, 2014 0:33:01 GMT -5
I'll just jump in and say I think the song contains a strong and positive message that I very much agree with, but that doesn't help the fact that it is musically pretty bad. It's by far the most boring song on his album, and really isn't all that good Lyrically amazing, but I'm not jumping into the debate any further
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