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Post by Pipa on Feb 15, 2024 20:20:24 GMT -5
It's 2024. You can put on the classic rock station and hear an Offspring song from 30 years ago. You can then put it on the "modern" rock station and hear the exact same song. And what's more bizarre, classic rock seems to be progressing through the decades faster than its modern counterparts.
So now, classic rock stations are liberally mixing together 70s and 90s music. But again, it's 2024. The target middle-aged listener didn't come of age through the 70s and 80s, but through the 90s and 2000s. So what happens when stations need to progress into 90s music without playing 70s titles that could clash? The same thing that happened when oldies couldn't play both the 60s and 80s. Slowly, the 60s will drop.
It's going to happen with every decade in music, though it will be interesting to see what happens when classic rock catches up to the 2010s, a decade where the Active Rock charts have very little reflection on what the average person is into. Stations will probably be more driven to play artists like Maneskin, Imagine Dragons and Twenty One Pilots over what actually became Active hits at the time.
But another phenomenon has happened lately, thanks to Spotify and TikTok, where Gen Z listens to artists from any decade mixed in with today's hits. They aren't bothered if it's from the 70s, the 90s, or if it's a Kate Bush song from 1985 played 100 times a week. This leads a lot of classic rock/hits stations to the wrong impression that they can either a) continue playing the same 70s/80s songs they've played for 20+ years in hopes younger people wouldn't want *any* other music mixed in, or b) basically program their playlists like throwing darts at a board, playing OutKast next to the Eagles and wondering why no one likes it.
A lot of people say genres are dead, and to a point they're right. But what I think what is most important, and what many stations haven't gotten the hang of yet, is programming to a certain mood/theme. Take Mark Ronson/Bruno Mars' Uptown Funk, and Looking Glass' Brandy (You're a Fine Girl). 42 years apart, and both obviously from very different generations. Under the "genre" way of thinking, Brandy would just be on the oldies station and Uptown on pop. However, thematically they both evoke a certain style and mood, and would flow together quite well despite the disparity.
I take this exact approach with QCIndie. You'll hear artists like Adam Ant, Blondie, Duran Duran, etc. mixed in with today's alt/indie because thematically and influence-wise, they both mix well. The lines of decades are blurred, and it makes for a much larger variety, but you don't have the whiplash effect of hearing Eminem in between Bryan Adams and The Rolling Stones. This method takes a lot more work and conscious thought, so obviously radio stations don't want to do it, but it's necessary if they want to survive in a world of algorithms and virtual mixtapes.
What do you guys think? Do you agree or disagree? Share your thoughts.
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Post by billcs on Feb 15, 2024 22:07:52 GMT -5
I think radio stations have been blurring the lines for years. 60's music is already dropping off - rarely do you hear more than The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors, Hendrix, Zeppelin and a few other assorted classics. Classic rock, mainstream rock and modern/alternative rock have overlapped back to the 80's.
To me, big terrestrial radio stations don't program for mood, they do callouts and surveys and determine what their audience wants to hear, but those are usually contained by examples of certain songs, which tells the stations that the audience likes or doesn't like that song or similar-sounding ones. And now I'm sure they run that through a computer program, and there is very little manual intervention or opinion given by the music staff, because it's not about what they like, it's about making money. Uptown Funk and Brandy wouldn't be played back to back on terrestrial radio because of obvious differences in production quality, and likely someone who liked Uptown Funk would change the dial if they heard Brandy and deemed it to be just some old song. With other old songs though like Queen's Don't Stop Me Now, you could play it back to back with Uptown Funk and while it would be an odd mix, the listener familiar with the Queen song likely wouldn't change the dial.
Today's streaming/Tik Tok audience only cares about whether or not it likes the song/artist, it doesn't matter what era, so old songs by Kate Bush, Sophie-Ellis Bextor, Miguel, and Lady Gaga get revived or become hits for the first time because of social media phenomenon. Reviving songs is not new, it happened all the time in the past, particularly in the 80's when radio was at its strongest and could influence its audience more with new music (even if it may be a revived old song that may or may not have been a hit the first time, like Benny Mardones' Into The Night or Synch & Jimmy Harnen's Where Are You Now). I don't think the younger generation of casual listeners is making random playlists of old and new songs together though. They would be influenced by friends to make something they all like.
To me, internet radio is the future. As soon as major corporations see the dollar value, they will invest in it and the terrestrial music stations will become a thing of the past, but that will take many, many years.
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Post by Pipa on Feb 15, 2024 22:45:36 GMT -5
I think radio stations have been blurring the lines for years. 60's music is already dropping off - rarely do you hear more than The Beatles, The Stones, The Doors, Hendrix, Zeppelin and a few other assorted classics. And I can't say I'm a fan, as I think the 60s gave us some of the greatest music of all time. I know as a 32-year old that's not a very marketable opinion, but if I were to run a classic rock station I would try to cover the full gamut, from the mid-to-late 60s to more recent releases from veteran artists into the 2000s/2010s. I think a song like Def Leppard's "Let's Go" would add a lot more variety to the sound without being unrecognizable, as opposed to playing "Pour Some Sugar On Me" yet AGAIN... Classic rock, mainstream rock and modern/alternative rock have overlapped back to the 80's. Such is the rock format as a whole, Triple A included. It's mainly due to the lack of consensus of what modern releases can hold up to those older tracks. Of course there are still songs that reach those heights (*cough*Check 'Em Out board*cough*), but stations won't play it and now we're in a time warp. To me, big terrestrial radio stations don't program for mood, they do callouts and surveys and determine what their audience wants to hear, but those are usually contained by examples of certain songs, which tells the stations that the audience likes or doesn't like that song or similar-sounding ones. And now I'm sure they run that through a computer program, and there is very little manual intervention or opinion given by the music staff, because it's not about what they like, it's about making money. Bleh! Market testing. That's exactly why I never professionally went into radio. As far as I'm concerned, if it went top 10, that's your market testing. After that should be the discretion of the programmer -- one who has an "ear" for their market and a feel for what they like. Of course, that hasn't been a thing for decades and the art of programming is almost completely dead, beyond "because someone in Toronto/a computer told us to play it". Uptown Funk and Brandy wouldn't be played back to back on terrestrial radio because of obvious differences in production quality, and likely someone who liked Uptown Funk would change the dial if they heard Brandy and deemed it to be just some old song. With other old songs though like Queen's Don't Stop Me Now, you could play it back to back with Uptown Funk and while it would be an odd mix, the listener familiar with the Queen song likely wouldn't change the dial. A difference in production quality shouldn't determine the playlist. A good mixer/compressor should be able to keep the sound consistent regardless of time and style. I'm using a TWENTY-TWO year old Winamp plugin. Why? Because it still sounds good and it works. Obviously Queen has stood the test of time in the general public much more than Looking Glass, but that's part of the problem. It's the same logic that leads stations to play Aerosmith's version of Come Together instead of The Beatles'. My classic rock station actually played "Get Back" the other day and it fit the sound and wasn't an outlier at all. No one said "The Beatles?! On MY classic rock station?? Well I NEVER!" lol. Today's streaming/Tik Tok audience only cares about whether or not it likes the song/artist, it doesn't matter what era, so old songs by Kate Bush, Sophie-Ellis Bextor, Miguel, and Lady Gaga get revived or become hits for the first time because of social media phenomenon. Reviving songs is not new, it happened all the time in the past, particularly in the 80's when radio was at its strongest and could influence its audience more with new music (even if it may be a revived old song that may or may not have been a hit the first time, like Benny Mardones' Into The Night or Synch & Jimmy Harnen's Where Are You Now). I don't think the younger generation of casual listeners is making random playlists of old and new songs together though. They would be influenced by friends to make something they all like. Yeah, I wasn't trying to claim reviving songs as a Gen Z thing as it's been happening for decades. Particularly what I'm thinking of are Spotify's official playlists. For example, their "Sunny Day" playlist has songs spanning from the 70s to today. Essentially, they're the digital versions of mixtapes, and with that playlist having over 600k likes alone, I think it definitely has an influence on younger generations. To me, internet radio is the future. As soon as major corporations see the dollar value, they will invest in it and the terrestrial music stations will become a thing of the past, but that will take many, many years. Alright, let's just plug ourselves lol Internet radio's biggest hurdle to overcome is convenient streaming in cars. I have 100 GB of data so that's not an issue, but not everyone does, and even if you do it's much faster to just turn on the radio than to connect your iPhone to Bluetooth and stream off that. But as we progress, I can see people having "algorithm fatigue" resulting in a return to more curated options such as that.
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Post by billcs on Feb 16, 2024 10:20:03 GMT -5
A difference in production quality shouldn't determine the playlist. A good mixer/compressor should be able to keep the sound consistent regardless of time and style. I'm using a TWENTY-TWO year old Winamp plugin. Why? Because it still sounds good and it works. Obviously Queen has stood the test of time in the general public much more than Looking Glass, but that's part of the problem. It's the same logic that leads stations to play Aerosmith's version of Come Together instead of The Beatles'. My classic rock station actually played "Get Back" the other day and it fit the sound and wasn't an outlier at all. No one said "The Beatles?! On MY classic rock station?? Well I NEVER!" lol. What I'm getting at here with the Looking Glass track - a favourite of mine, I still have the original 45 - is that it sounds like 1972. It's a wonderful song but perhaps not as timeless as others from the era. Some songs that might turn heads when played back-to-back with the Uptown Funks of the last few years might include Venus by Shocking Blue, Sugar Sugar by The Archies, Love Grows Where My Rosemary Goes by Edison Lighthouse, Radar Love by Golden Earring, the list goes on....
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Post by JessieLou on Feb 16, 2024 16:36:12 GMT -5
All I have to say is that my local oldies station in Florida has played Santana's Smooth, Cher's Believe, and Madonna's Music, and it made me feel old as hell.
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Post by Courage on Feb 19, 2024 11:25:22 GMT -5
Songs the "Classic Rock" station here has played.
Evanescence - Bring Me to Life No Doubt - It's My Life
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Post by ziggy2 on Feb 19, 2024 13:48:50 GMT -5
Our local classic rock station used to be stuck in the 70s era (Rush, Floyd, Genesis, Led Zep), but they have changed with the times. Still, the majority of the songs played are older.
Here’s the data for the last 40 songs played: 60s – 0% 70s - 12.5% 80s - 35% 90s – 25% 00s – 7.5% 10s – 5% 20s – 15%
Songs from the 2020s may be new but they are usually from established rock bands like U2, Stones, etc.
I tend to agree that Radio playlists are more diverse and might seem incoherent at times. But it’s probably what people want from a radio station? Otherwise, you can get on Sirius and just listen to very specific stuff like 70s disco music all the time.
Classic Rock stations are surely not looking to reach young crowds… they just want the keep the nostalgic old gang.
As Bill mentioned, it’s about the money. The baby boomers are already between 60 and 80yo. When they move on, classic rock stations will probably disappear or convert.
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